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Insights, Marketing & Data: Secrets of Success from Industry Leaders
Insights, Marketing & Data: Secrets of Success from Industry Leaders
THE ESTEE LAUDER COMPANIES: Sharalyn Orr, Executive Director, Global Marketing Innovation (Part 2). Unmasking myths about Millennials; the latch key kids of Gen X; the truth about Baby Boomers; what really characterizes Gen Z?
What if the stereotypes we hold about different generations are completely misguided? What if we don't know how to define them properly? Or if we're making up generations that simply haven't (yet) been properly defined?
Well, Sharalyn Orr of The Estee Lauder Companies is coming to the rescue with part 2 of our interview....
Join us as we debunk the myth that Baby Boomers are resistant to technology and reveal the defining traits of Gen X, molded by the upheavals of the late 60s and 70s. We contrast these with the formative experiences of Millennials during the economic booms and enhanced child safety measures of the 80s and 90s. We also explore the societal pressures that shaped the Baby Boomers' drive to acquire McMansions and the emergence of the modern midlife crisis.
We'll discuss the pragmatic mindset of Gen Z, influenced by significant events like the 2008 financial crisis and COVID-19, and the perils of narrow generational timeframes. And how you can use generational insight within your company....
This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the complex interplay between generational experiences and societal norms.
All episodes available at https://www.insightplatforms.com/podcasts/
Suggestions, thoughts etc to futureviewpod@gmail.com
For example, for every two millennial men who graduated from college with an undergrad or advanced degree, there were three women doing the same right. They were outpacing them in not just college enrollment but college attainment, you know, early in their careers. There was a study done in 2012 that showed, when you looked at young professionals so who were not married and did not have children between the ages of 22 and 30, in the 50 biggest markets in this country, the women were out earning the men in 39 of them and like that's huge. Now we know that. You know the biggest things with the gender imbalance and pay scale come into play when women become mothers like I get all of that, but to have that level of significance for out earning them was tremendous at that early stage. And then, when you would advance forward to the life stage where most millennial women are now where their mothers, you know like they're in family, they're like fully settled life stages. They're the ones that are really bringing forth the narrative of like invisible labor and how this has to be changed.
Speaker 1:Welcome to FutureView and part two of the interview with the brilliant Sherilyn Orr of the Estee Lauder Companies. The intro to Sherilyn is in part one, so please skip back there if you want the context. In this part of the conversation we're jumping straight into one of Sherilyn's specialist areas and an area she's very passionate about truths and falsehoods around generational cohorts. Let's just get straight into it and onto the interview and I pick your brain on these confusing generations and, as I think I'd suggested before we started, I'd like to run an experiment and see if I can do a little bit of myth busting. So if we went through the generations, could you give me kind of a quick summary of how you define them and something that you think is well, something that's true about them, but also something that isn't true in terms of popular perceptions or conceptions? Is that all okay?
Speaker 2:Yes, I love this game.
Speaker 1:Okay, so how about let's start with the relatively older generation? So baby boomers? Who are they? How do you define them? What's true and what isn't?
Speaker 2:Okay. So a couple of caveats before I start on all of this One, I'm doing it through a kind of a US, north America-centric lens, so just kind of we'll leave it at that. So for baby boomers, this is the one that I think everyone most widely agrees on the definition of the age range right, born 1946 to 1964, which makes sense. Right Came home from the war About 10 months later. The baby boom started, especially in the United States, and then ending in 64, because after the JFK assassination in the United States, like, really like, our whole world shifted. So that means that they're age 60 to 78 in 2024.
Speaker 2:So a truth about baby boomers, the whole, the McMansions, right, like we I mean, we haven't even heard that word in a while Like, that's a little. The word itself is a little bit of a flashback, but I want to show you how that is a truth and how it plays out. So I can brag about this all day long, because I didn't come up with this brilliant like way to approach to apply the generational lens. It was my colleagues at Magid which I just got to adapt it. So when you talk about generations, what makes it meaningful is to really understand mindsets of a generation. So a mindset is, you know it's developed like by when members of a generation experience something at a similar life stage and age that tends to shape their view of the world. So we looked at what identified key societal factors that members of a generation experience and then it had a creative mindset and has resulting effects that often you start to see that mindset play out in different ways throughout the course of their life as they enter new life stages. You start to see that mindset play out in different ways throughout the course of their life as they enter new life stages.
Speaker 2:So when you think about McMansions, what it really stems for for American baby boomers is, you know, the societal factor was the GI Bill. So it was a bill that was passed so that when men came home from World War II they were set up for pursuing college degrees, getting loans to purchase homes, right. It really paved and set forth the infrastructure so that we kind of built suburban America, and one I always caveat, I always like to say, like you know, it wasn't necessarily mean that that was what every single person experienced, because you know Black members of the military didn't receive that same benefit. Because you know black members of the military didn't receive that same benefit because you know United States and um, yeah, you mentioned that before it's.
Speaker 1:it's still shocking, but anyway let's discuss over that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's obviously a whole nother a whole nother topic for another podcast, but what it's still impacted, it's still impacted them in a different way and when we look at it, the mindset that that really set up you think of what it paved the way for. Suburban America is really this notion of social pressure that has been so typified by the baby boomers, right, the concept of keeping up with the Joneses and you know, kicking in every pot and like that whole concept. And one of the effects that we've seen from that right was the ride to the McMansion. Right, they were all about their social climbing. You know, getting that bigger house, getting that whatever, doing it kind of at all costs. And another effect that we've seen is this notion of I call it the boomified midlife crisis. When you know you and I say like, oh, that guy's totally having a midlife crisis, right, what pops to mind is, you know, younger woman, sports car.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, like it was really good, and podcasts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the case of Henry, no, but like that, when you look in like psychology books and things, the term of a midlife crisis was coined way before. That was what the perception was. So the notion of like modern midlife crisis was really created by the boomers and it was a result of this like social pressure, so I like to use that as a truth. A myth for baby boomers is their relationship to technology. People love to just assume they're old and set in their ways. Can't teach an old dog new tricks, that kind of thing but that's not true. A 2023 Razorfish agency study found that 70% of baby boomers are curious and eager to learn about new types of technology and 70% say that they aren't overwhelmed or intimidated. And that's not to say that they're going to use it the same way that maybe a 25-year-old is, but the fact that the perception is that they're afraid of it, and that's not true.
Speaker 1:Those two are really really good. And can we move on to the next one? So Gen X. So Gen X is possibly the least, possibly the least well understood. Is that, or is that a myth?
Speaker 2:100% true. No, that is not a myth, that is 100% true. And they're my favorite to talk about. It's my focus at Estee Lauder Companies. They're my absolute favorite.
Speaker 2:So, nightborne, the age ranges that I use at Estee Lauder Companies and I'm getting us, we're all on the same page doing is 1965 to 1979. Now the reason that we end at 79, the first time and I like to look at it as through like there's no governmental agency on like generations, right, like there's no entity saying when one starts and when one ends, like it's a, it's a social science, right, it's not, it's not exact. And so I think, when we're thinking of it in terms of business, which is what we're talking about right now, the first time that a group of people, a generation, became important to businesses was with the baby boomers, because there was so darn many of them, like you couldn't ignore them. So birth rates, I think, really play a lot into that and so obviously that varies across markets. So, again, like I said, a bit of a US centric view here. But 1979, so like there was a downturn in the birth rates in the 60s and 70s because of the introduction of birth control, and 1979 was the last year before there was, there was like a little uptick in 77. And then there was a major uptick in 80, which there tends to be at the start of a decade for some reason, anywho.
Speaker 2:So 1979 is where we draw that off and like the world kind of changed. So 1979 is where we draw that off and like the world kind of changed. And when I say world, I mean you know the US world changed in the 80s with, you know, reaganomics and a whole lot of things. So Xers are 65 to 79, which makes them 45 to 59 in 2024. And so a truth for Xers is that they are cynical and guarded Like that is true, and it's one that is so almost like universal, it's almost eerie, like I mean I hardly know a single person who was born in that date range, regardless of where, who does not like relate to that at some level, and so much of it is the environment that they're in. I was in a like a research presentation by an outside firm last week and I could barely contain myself because someone tried to say that when Xers were born it was a tumultuous time in the late 60s and 70s and that is what shaped their worldview, which is so much the reason why they're cynical and guarded.
Speaker 1:Really interesting and you think, because obviously those events and so in the UK I think, yeah, you'd had massive industrial strife. I guess you had oil shocks going throughout the world, end of Vietnam, all these types of things, yeah, and I guess a lot of anger in music as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, we could talk about music for days when it comes out of the 70s and heading into the 80s and 90s. They were the ones that brought along grunge Again, that whole movement in music and the alt that, like many of them, still gravitate towards to this day.
Speaker 1:Okay. So do you feel that that is, even though that would have been relatively early in terms of kids of that age group, given that they were growing up in that era that they would have taken that sense of uncertainty and strife with them later in life?
Speaker 2:Really do, because the world wasn't set out to protect them the way that when you came along. So part of, I think, with generations what really helps is the comparison, because it really is so obvious when you see what came along for millennials in the 80s and 90s, where not only did you have booming economics and a little less of like the crazy, you know things happening oh yeah, cuban missile crisis, the Iranian like hostage crisis, like that was all still there too, right, but with millennials, right, you also had the creation of afterschool programs, you had child safety, car seat laws and regulations. The world, kind of our society, started to shift around how do we protect children? And that wasn't the case for Xers, so it wasn't even the broad stuff, the other part for Xers. I think that adds to that and it's also when you look at it cumulatively.
Speaker 2:Two more things because we're having fun talking about Xers. One, you look at broadly in media and entertainment and it was all about teen and baby bashing. Think of the movies of the of the 80s, like the 70s and 80s, like rosemary's baby.
Speaker 2:Yeah yep, yep, rosemary's baby, like the oven actually double right.
Speaker 2:Then you have like, think of, like the brat pack, right, the teenagers are the drudges of society, right, like. And what's interesting is who was creating? It was basically their parents. It was silent generation. That was like creating all that content at the time, and again it's the comparison where it's really stark. Then you enter in the 90s and what was? What were the movies? Three men and a little bait, three Men and a Baby, baby's Day Out. And then, of course, the king of all of that, uk Harry Potter, where the child literally saves the world, right.
Speaker 1:Versus.
Speaker 2:Rose Baby. So I think that's part of the environment. And then the other one is where I think leads to a myth is you know the other environment. They were latchkey kids. That one is very, very US centric but I think broadly across the West, like this kind of mentality has shifted a little bit. With my myth, I'll show you how I'm like weaving this together.
Speaker 2:So the thing that you often hear is extra parents described as helicopter parents, and it makes me bananas. You know the helicopter parents, right, that was baby boomers parenting their millennial children. It was a perfect name because they just noisily hovered over their kids. They were just always there, right. And then along came Xers and people still trying to call it helicopter parenting, but it's not. It's really more of drone parenting. Let me explain what I mean.
Speaker 2:So Gen X kids they grew up in the throngs of divorce, right. So 1967 was the first state in the country passed a law for no-fault divorce clause, and the next 10 years every other state in the United States followed and it really led to that uptick in the divorce rate. At the same time you had second wave feminism, more women working outside of the home, and so you had these kids. They would just go home from school, latchkey, let themselves in and fend for themselves for hours until their parents came home. And it was so bad this like fending for themselves notion that the US government had to run a PSA during the 10 o'clock news where it literally was this creepy thing of like an empty swing just going and you heard the creak and it says do you know where your children are. They literally remind parents to go and find their children and put them to bed. So that was the other part of the environment they grew up when, like, literally their small world, right, wasn't set up to protect them. Their parents just let them run and do and if you didn't live it to understand it, like watch Stranger Things.
Speaker 2:That kind of is very typical of like what the XR experience was, and so my whole point with that like go through that, that applying the generational lens of how they're a drone parent, not a helicopter parent, right, they, they're Alaska kids.
Speaker 2:That's really kind of almost not just something they were. It's a mindset they often still have today, where they're like I'm scrappy, I'm on my own, I've been for myself, and when it comes to their parenting, it was, oh, I know what I was up to when I was left to my own devices and you are not going to be doing that. So they run surveillance on their kids, like constantly, right. So think of it like a drone. It's up there, it's watching what's going down below, because somebody's like watching the camera of the drone, right. So they're watching what's going on and then they will swoop in and interfere whenever they deem necessary, whether it's to protect their kid or to call their kid out. More than often it's to call someone else out related to their kid, because they felt like they were on their own and they are going to make sure their kid knows that they have their back.
Speaker 1:That's fascinating. I may actually play this to my kids and I suspect they will go guilty as charged.
Speaker 2:Completely Well, and it's so funny because you think of that right, like I mean, the drone for broad parenting. But then it became part of what you have to do as a parent with, like you know, like you said, tracking devices to know what they're doing online, to keep them safe. But it's also think of many schools, and maybe I don't know if it's this way as much in the UK like I mean, school is such a competitive sport now in the United States to get a kid into a good college, and like school set up, like these portals, and so parents are literally checking their kids' grades every day. And you know, like my parents had no clue what I was doing in school unless I, like told them when I got home, but like parents can be more informed than the kids themselves sometimes, and like it's all being set up because that's what parents want to do, because they want to monitor everything and micromanage it, because they had no management whatsoever.
Speaker 1:Fascinating. We could keep on going on Gen X, but I'm conscious of time, so not at all. It's brilliant stuff, so how about millennials?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, so millennials, like I said, so we'll start in 80, because I was like on the birth rate, and then that goes up to 1986, which most people kind of are getting around there these days, and 96, like 97, was the first time there's kind of again another shift in trend in the birth rate. So that means millennials are aged 28 to 44, which is a pretty big thing. And so, for millennials, a truth I'll start with, the truth is that like millennial women are can I say this Like they're kind of badass, can I say that?
Speaker 2:As long as you explain what badass means say that like as long as you, as long as you explain what badass means. I mean, they're just we've always we always talked about like they were just so empowered. And you know, for example, you know some of the stats I used to run off back in my heyday at maggot when I was talking about millennials and I was kind of like the millennial girl. It was, you know, every for every two millennial men who graduated from college with an undergrad or advanced degree, there were three women doing the same. They were outpacing them in not just college enrollment but college attainment Early in their careers. There was a study done in 2012 that showed, when you looked at young professionals who were not married and did not have children between the ages of 22 and 30 in the 50 biggest markets in this country, the women were out earning the men in 39 of them. And like that's huge. Now we know that. You know, the biggest things with the gender imbalance and pay scale come into play when women become mothers. Like I get all of that, but to have that level of significance for out earning them was tremendous at that early stage. And then when you advance forward to the life stage where most millennial women are now where their mothers, you know, like they're in family, they're like fully settled life stages. They're the ones that are really bringing forth the narrative of like invisible labor and how this has to be changed and really starting to shift the dynamics of what's going on in a home and gender roles. So that's why I want to mean like, just like they're badass, like they're just an empowered group of women. We can see that as like, kind of through the life stages as they've advanced on. So that's my truth for millennials. My myth you know you don't hear it as much now because everybody always likes to pick on the young one but you know, for a long time the myth for millennials was like they're so entitled they expect to be rewarded for nothing because they everyone gets supposed to get a trophy. Like everybody like loves to tell these stories. Like Time Magazine did a cover about it, right, and I always love to remind these stories. Time magazine did a cover about it right, and I always love to remind people that it was not a bunch of six-year-olds who demanded that they all get a trophy.
Speaker 2:It was when, again, looking at the maggot approach of applying generational lens, the societal culture was the expansion of ayso soccer in this country and I'm I don't know if they have something similar in the UK, but this soccer program, the idea, is that, like, everyone gets to play, it does not matter if you are a kid who scores literally every time you touch the ball or you are a kid who swings your foot and misses the ball. Every single time you play the same amount. And so it really fostered this mindset of millennials of a cohort perspective where everyone's input matters. Right, everyone got a trophy. It doesn't matter if you scored every single goal, everyone got the trophy.
Speaker 2:And one of the resulting effects was the power of peer influence. And when I was talking about this in like 2010, 11, and 12, it was like revelatory to be talking about how important ratings and reviews were. That was just starting to happen. It was millennials that drove that, and now it's like laughable because that's a given and that totally trickled up, like everyone of all ages like is reliant on ratings and reviews. But that all started from the cohort perspective mindset of millennials and they pushed that through and it became something that now everyone relies on for commerce.
Speaker 1:It's interesting the comment you made as well around how it seems to get pushed down as well, like some of the maybe negative conceptions around these generations, and I suspect you know you may go there in terms of when we get on to Gen Z or Zed. If I'm going to sounds weird if I say Gen Zed in a British, anyway I'll say Gen Z the American way, but because, as as you say, I think now everybody's saying with them they're so entitled. But then I wonder if baby boomers talked about Gen X and said they're so entitled.
Speaker 2:They were slackers. Everyone labeled them as like such slackers. They don't do anything. You know that that is actually really interesting because they were broadly labor slackers and they like leaned into it, which is different than every other generation. Because it's just so gen x, they're like okay, cool, you think that's what we are, that's what we'll be like. Think of like the movies, reality bites, right, it was really like setting that up. They're like cool, we'll embody that. And then what's amazing is they've like also single-handedly turned that around.
Speaker 2:One of the things most widely held perceptions of Gen X now is how incredibly hardworking they are Like, so they like literally flipped it.
Speaker 2:But I mean, everyone always loves to pick on the youngest people and think of one of my favorite examples for baby boomers is if you watch the series Mad Men, actually one season where they kind of came through and Don Draper, who he was like GI slash, silent, like he was like oh my gosh, these young people, they're so annoying and they just like right, everyone always loves to pick on the young person and the young group.
Speaker 2:So Gen Z, which brings us to the Gen Z now, so that's born in 1997. And this is something that makes me also crazy. So, being a demographer and, frankly, a generational expert, I've been doing this for 15 plus years more than most people that talk about this and really the cutoff is around 2014 when, again looking at the birth rate, we saw a severe decline in the birth rate, starting in 2014. It was like the last peak before a big drop and then there was like a steady drop until COVID and then we had an uptick and then we've now hit record lows in the United States in 2023 for birth rates. So that means Gen Z is from age 10 to 27 in this country, like globally, not just in this country, and so when people talk about Gen Alpha and start talking about teens and tweens, I want to throw things, because it's still Gen Z. Gen Z is not just 18 to 24, like they are 10 to 27 I think that is a a common misconception.
Speaker 1:It's a common myth. Maybe you've just given, you've just given the myth in that case, and maybe it's because we're so keen to label the next generation but they say it doesn't really make any sense for a generation to be. How can a generation be six years?
Speaker 2:Exactly. And the problem with that is, like what that is is it's. It's, frankly, like that's reporters doing lazy reporting, just trying to slap a label on something because that, like it's what get clicks. Now Like it's not. You know, like they, if anyone sat and thought about it, they're like, oh yeah, that doesn't make sense, but nobody has sat and thought about it. Like when they get a story gets written and then people start talking about it. And also, you know, like the names make me insane, so they don't mean anything.
Speaker 2:Gen X actually meant something, Right, and you know they started calling millennials Gen Y. You know, just like I was supposed to do the Gen Y column and then it really quickly became millennials. Magid had a hand in that, because they use millennials and that was all. Their clients were media companies, so all the media companies started saying millennials. So that was a big impact. And then, Magid, we actually tried to name the next generation and we called them plurals, the pluralist generation, a reflection of our increasingly fragmented society, because that would be the number one thing shaping their view of the world. Right, and this is hugely so in the United States, but I think broadly across the West. Think about how our societies are becoming increasingly pluralistic, like ethnic composition, right. So that's very, very obvious here in the United States. Like Gen Z plurals, they're the last generation of a Caucasian majority and they'll first be truly pluralistic. Right now they are 50% white, so in a couple of years, with immigration, they're going to be less than 50% Caucasian, and you know that's happening.
Speaker 1:And birth rate, by the way, as well.
Speaker 2:But now everybody that's being born is of the next generation, like they're post-Gen Z, but so like that's all changing. But then think of how we're also becoming pluralistic in terms of business, communication, media, parenting, families, education, politics and religion, like all of those things. So we have this very, very pluralistic society. So we called them plurals and we were really pushing for that. Just didn't happen to get any further than we did. And so now it pains me every time I have to say Gen Z. But anyway, a truth for Gen Z, I'd like to say, because I think that there's something we can go deeper. Right, everybody loves to be like oh, you know they were. They're mobile first. You know they're screen dominant, they're TikTok obsessed, and yes, there's truth to all of that. But I think you can look at that in a much more deeper and more strategic and meaningful way. That helps you as a business, and so let's apply the generational lens. Youtube would really be the societal factor for them. So 2006 was the year, if I remember correctly, when Lazy Sunday happened. Do you remember?
Speaker 1:that video.
Speaker 2:It was a video of Saturday Night Live skit that went. It was like the first thing that went viral. It really sort of put YouTube on the map, and so you think of then YouTube and then what followed and the way that like information gets spread online and that really, and how Gen Z, that's all they ever knew. Like, think of, like that was like in there when they were little, little up through like the whole time that they've been alive. So fostered this mindset that we call the quantifiable lifestyle. And the quantifiable lifestyle Like at first you're like oh yeah, you know, I wear my Fitbit, I wear my thing and I know how many steps I have and I know that's not what it is. It's that for them, the quantifiable lifestyle is not like I'm not just funny, I'm 300 likes and 27.
Speaker 1:I see where you're going. I see where you're going, got it yeah.
Speaker 2:And they know how that is, and so they're constantly calibrating relative to that, and so one of the resulting effects for this generation I call it competitive creativity, because if I'm going to stand out, right, if I'm, I'm like I'm funny, but my, my friend is funny too like how am I going to be funnier? Like how do I? So they're constantly calibrating. So those likes and comments and things that you know, we worry about their impact on their mental health and there's some truth to all of that, of course, too but they also like taking it away is like I mean, not just puts them in like remission, because they've used it, but they also don't know what to do, because they want to be able to calibrate, because that's like oh, oh, that didn't work well, so now I need to be more this way or need more. They think like a brand in that regard, and so competitive creativity is everywhere. And you add in something like TikTok where, like kind of seemingly anyone can go viral and you know, it really supports this stat that Morning Consult published in 2023. They found that 57% of all Gen Z wanted to be influencers, like thought that that was like a viable career path, because it kind of is and right, they're all operating as such, in whatever size their sphere is. So, when you talk about a truth for Gen Z, it's yes, yes, they're mobile, first gifts or all those things. But like, what does that mean? And I think the most important thing is to think of it in terms of this quantifiable lifestyle mindset and like the result of this competitive creativity, which they, by the way, expect you as a brand to do times 10 if they're doing it themselves.
Speaker 2:And then the one I'd love to talk about another myth, not just on the dates, but like so sometimes they're kind of brandish is also being like cynical or pessimistic, you know, because they're young people and they're blah, blah, blah and like I kind of hear that sometimes and what it is is like you know, they were raised from very, very different parents, like millennials had baby boomers, idealistic parents, and you know, these Gen Zs, primarily, were raised by Gen Xers we just talked about, are guarded and conflicted and cynical. And you know, I think of other things that they've experienced in the United States and even globally. Right, they, in the 2008 short financial crisis, where they were seeing parents losing jobs, there was, you know, they've in United States, like the proliferation of school shootings, like whole nother podcast. But there's that, and then COVID, and so, like they just kind of seen like where the world doesn't necessarily always work out.
Speaker 2:So there's a degree of inherent optimism that comes with youth, because should always be there but what I like to always call it is this is a group that is their mindset is rooted in realism, right, like yes, we're positive in the future, but this is our situation now, and so what really the effect is is pragmatism, like this is an exceedingly pragmatic group, and that's different than cynical, that's different than optimistic, right Like it's somewhere in the middle, it's a immersion of the two, and I think that that is really significant for researchers and for, you know, for brands to understand.
Speaker 1:How do you use some of these types of insights? So I know that you're focused on women 45 plus, which I guess puts them in the Gen. X maybe end of the millennial type of area, but even just gen X. Maybe end of the millennial type of area, but even just yeah. So how would you, are you able to give some kind of practical articulations?
Speaker 2:about how you use this type of insight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I apply this generational lens all the time, both consciously and unconsciously, and I'll tell you, like one of the things, like so you know, in your day to day as a researcher just thinking of who's listening to your podcast it allows you to see patterns in data that you wouldn't necessarily have otherwise, and I think looking for patterns is one of the most powerful things that you can do, and I think in today's society of just like data point, data point, data point, it's really easy to kind of miss doing that, but it's like, oh my gosh, anytime we ask about something related to this, this is what we tend to see, right, like, you tend to see this pattern, and that's when you can start to be like, oh my gosh, that's the X, y, z mindset at play.
Speaker 2:Right there, you know, you start to, you start to see that, and so what I'm constantly trying to do for our teams and for my brand partners is like bring that to light. So if we're talking about an upcoming campaign, you know I want to show them why this is really working, you know, or maybe why this won't as well, right, maybe you might want to think about adjusting it this way because of this, and you know, into to pull from, you know these broad, like the broad lens like this, but also like deep qualitative research, I think is so, so key in roles like this, when you know we're consumer experts and you have all the data points in the world. But if you don't have the consumer context right, if you don't have that context which comes from spending time with your people, spending time with your consumers, it kind of can become really meaningless.
Speaker 1:Wow, I learned so much from Sherilyn in that extract from our first conversation and it's such a pleasure to talk to her and pick her brain. As a bit of a history geek, I also really like that angle of understanding the external factors that may have influenced generations. Next week we're moving on to another really interesting and very different guest, not because John Redmond isn't a pleasure too, but because he's the founder and CEO of Ask Bosco. So it's a very different part of the marketing and data world from the one we've just discussed analyzing the lower funnel allocation of marketing spend and creative to drive sales. If you want to get a primer of how performance marketing, direct response, attribution models and all of that good stuff works, then tune in. Thanks again to Sherilyn for her time, to Insight Platforms for their support and to you for listening. See you next time.
