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Insights, Marketing & Data: Secrets of Success from Industry Leaders
Insights, Marketing & Data: Secrets of Success from Industry Leaders
THE ESTEE LAUDER COMPANIES: Sharalyn Orr, Executive Director, Global Marketing Innovation (Part 1). From TV news to marketing strategy; contextualizing information overload; taking insights from the 'so what?' to the 'now what?'
Join us for the season four premiere of FutureView, where we sit down with Sharlyn Orr, Executive Director of Global Marketing Innovation at Estee Lauder Companies. Sharalyn takes us through her fascinating shift from journalism to consumer insights to marketing and the crucial role of subject matter experts in managing information overload within large organizations. Among other areas we cover:
- How Sharalyn almost became a policewoman (kind of)
- Moving from TV news and print journalism into generational insight
- Focusing and understanding the proposition for over 45s for the Estee Lauder companies
- How Sharalyn's role intersects with consumer insight teams
- The continued importance of in-depth qualitative insight
- Sharalyn's mentors
- Characteristics of good (and bad) agencies.
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Listen in or check out the transcript page for all the detail. Please use the text function above to feedback thoughts, questions, further suggestions and areas you'd like the pod to cover in the future.
All episodes available at https://www.insightplatforms.com/podcasts/
Suggestions, thoughts etc to futureviewpod@gmail.com
there's no lack of information in any company. I mean just the sheer volume of insights that our teams generate, which is truly amazing, but, like, no one is an expert in all of it. And then how do you sift through it? And when you get to the brand level, you're like please, please, don't send me another deck. Like, honestly, we'll get that at least once a week. Like, please, for the love, do not send me another deck. And so it's like how you know, like being that translator, that person that's in the moment. So I agree, I think increasingly, organizations need to think about, you know, setting things up whether, like you said, a chief of staff or you know the way we are set up with a COE into really being the subject matter experts.
Henry:Welcome to FutureView and the first episode of season four. Now to get us going, I'm really delighted to interview Shirelyn Orr, Executive Director of Global Marketing Innovation at the Estee Lauder Companies. It's an amazing role within an amazing group of companies. Sharlene's role incorporates exploring business issues through a generational and societal lens, so that incorporates strategy, working with research departments, incorporating product development and marketing execution. As part of the interview, she describes how she got into the marketing sector, having initially worked as a journalist, then onto a well-known research agency, and now how she intersects with centers of excellence across the Estée Lauder companies. Along the way, she calls out her mentors, the characteristics of good agencies to work with and bad, as well as so much more. There's also going to be a follow-up next week where we get into myth-busting around generational cohorts. So on to the interview. So, Sharon Lynn, firstly, thanks so much for joining today. It's taken us a while to schedule. We've been traveling around during the summer, but really delighted to have you on.
Sharalyn:Oh, same here. Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun.
Henry:Brilliant, now to get going. I think you know what I'm probably about to ask, because I ask everybody this question. What's one thing that most people don't know about you or that they might find surprising? It doesn't have to be a great secret, but you know just something that wouldn't generally be in the public domain.
Sharalyn:Well, I am a graduate of a citizen's police academy.
Henry:Are you Like in the movies?
Sharalyn:Yeah, it's so. It's usually my thing if you ever have to do that game with like two truths and a lie, like I always use it because no one would ever assume it if they know me. But it was this really cool experience I had when I was in college and my college town it was a big PR thing that the police department would hold every couple of years that the police department would hold every couple of years and they would invite you know leaders of the community, key opinion leaders, and to participate in this to kind of understand and essentially like gain more sympathy and support for the police department. And at the time I was a journalist and I worked at the TV station and I was the host of our regular morning news program. So they invited me to participate in this while I was in college and so I've graduated from a Citizens Police Academy and I learned that I am not cut out for that line of work.
Henry:Well, I have to say I am surprised and interesting that you were also a news presenter as well. I guess we'll get onto that in a moment. One thing people don't know about me that's just reminded me of that is that I once did weather promos on WRIC TV, I think in Virginia. I was doing an internship when I was at college in the US and they got me to do weather promos with my British accent.
Sharalyn:Oh my gosh. Yeah, All the viewers were eating you up with a spoon, especially the women.
Henry:Just say it right now, I don't think they were. I think I was so bad, but fortunately that's back in the days before mass digitization, so I don't think there's any evidence online. But jumping forward a bit and then we'll go backwards onto your journey. So, estee Lauder, could we start with a bit of scene setting in terms of what your role encompasses Because it's a slightly unusual role, I think and job title, for that matter.
Sharalyn:Yeah, so my title is, I'm Executive Director of Marketing and Innovation for the Estee Lauder companies and it is very unique. It's this hybrid role that's looking at market. It's part marketing, part product development, part strategy and part consumer insights. And we're our team we have. Well, my role is specifically focused on how do we drive value and drive high growth consumer segments.
Sharalyn:In this case, looking at 45 plus in particular, how do we show up for that woman, how do we do more business with that woman, which I think is particularly interesting in beauty, given that it's an industry that's well, frankly, historically always has been and in most cases still is obsessed with youth. And then what's also unique is we're really we're the only team at the Estee Lauder companies and, to my knowledge, in the entire beauty industry that really works across the full funnel of a beauty organization and meaning like we are cradle to grave. So we are supporting in scientific research, in product development, claims creation, how we show up in market. So our marketing and communications message and strategy, what does our actual creative look like? You know the whole funnel. And then what is the consumer overall consumer experience. So we are supporting that across the full funnel.
Henry:Got it and does that mean, given that you're focused on over 45s, that you work more with certain brands in particular, who are focused more on that age category?
Sharalyn:Yes. So there are like, for instance, I work more with you know the Estee Lauder brand and La Mer and you know Clinique more so than I'm working with, like Too Faced or Mac, because they tend to be a little bit more younger skewing.
Henry:Got it, and is that a conscious decision I imagine it is on behalf of Estee Lauder to focus on this segment as opposed to the youth segment. I mean, I'd imagined over 45s have more disposable income from a, you know, frankly, from a purely commercial perspective.
Sharalyn:Yes, no, it is actually a very specific strategic decision, but it's also you have to look at it in terms of a portfolio strategy. So it's not saying that you know any of those brands are going to ignore younger consumers, but it's really looking at, this is a high growth value consumer target, particularly in the West. So, as you noted, they actually have money. That's something I always like to remind people of right there at their peak earning years. So, when you're talking in prestige and luxury, that's really important because obviously they have money to do it, but they are less impacted by economic headwinds. You look in the North America market in particular, there's a lot. Well, right now, us stock market's going a little crazy. It's affecting everything, but also election years always tend to impact, so they tend to be hit impacted by those things a bit less when you are more stable in you know your career and have had a longer term job and, you know, have a bigger safety network, for lack of a better word. So, and it's also really important to note that, like you know, sometimes their perceptions for some brands and in and out of our portfolio just like across, you know beauty and across all categories like this is an old person brand. You know everybody's always trying to be like prove that they're a young person brand.
Sharalyn:And while there's value in that, like there's also, you have to understand today's consumer is so different than the who. The consumers were like consumers over the age of 50 back in the 60s when, like tv demos were first set up. Right like today's consumer, all across the west in particular, like they are active consumers into their 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s, and that just wasn't the case before. People are living longer. They're living well for longer. They're working longer. They want to be part of trends and what's happening and be involved in society and communities in conversation for longer. So all of these things translate to product sales.
Henry:Yeah, got it and just to flesh it out a little bit more, I mean, what would the classic life cycle be of your involvement in a certain product or, for instance, a campaign? If I try to ground it a little bit, say there's a big fall campaign coming out for a given you're working on. When do you start working on that and what's the process in terms of the insights and the information that you're pulling together?
Sharalyn:Well, it's so funny. I wish that there was a here's how it works. It's always different and the truth is is it also varies by brand. One other thing that's unique so I work at. You know it's a global role. I'm focused on Western, mature markets, so I work with our global teams, but then I also work with our regional teams in the West, and so, for example, probably one of the best examples of what you just talked about is with the Estee Water brand, and I worked with the global team year, year and a half ago and developing the concept for a high level campaign to target consumers 45 plus, like developing what it is, and then started working with the regions and how they rolled that out. So, like in the UK, they were the first one to pilot it. Then I was partnering with them on how they actually then bring this to life, and then with EMEA, and now doing the same with the US and that's why I'm not talking to specifics, because it hasn't rolled out in the US yet.
Henry:So I can't speak about it.
Sharalyn:But when you talk about like kind of how I use everything, so with the global team, I'm showing up with like the broad insights and here's what the opportunity is, and you know how we have to, you have to create things as a you know, in strategy and insights like you have to take it and distill it down into like the so what and the now what, right, like you know, here's the consumer tension, here's the inside, and well, here's, here's what we can do and here's how we do it, you know. So you develop that like one sheet. Or then I there was all you know, you and I know all professionals listening know that that's like usually I mean hundreds of hours of work to get to that one sheeter right, and probably thousands, if not six figures worth of research usually to get to, to get to like that one sheeter. That's the guide and like everybody's always like cool, and even when you spell it out, it's usually so hard for teams to then like well then, how do I do that? Right, because it's the moment of when you're in the conversation, you're constantly connecting dots in your head Like this is like that one thing that we saw that one time and and helping weaving that story together. So I'm spending this time at the super high level with the global to get them to this conclusion that I need them to draw, and that's something that I don't think is unique to a role like mine.
Sharalyn:I think it's common, when you work in research and you're part of an agency, you so often can't say here's exactly what you need to do. Like, sometimes you can, but not all clients want to hear that. Right, like you kind of have to give them the cupcake that's like basically baked, that they just need to put in the oven for another minute and slap some frosting on top, and then it's like all set. So, like you have to like it's all about the presentation. So I jokingly like to call it puppet mastering. I don't like to, you know, get all the things in place so I get them to arrive at the conclusion that I want them to arrive to and then help us play out. So that's what I did there. And then at the regional level, it was yes, yes, I love that idea. Maybe think about this twist on it and here's why. Maybe think about this nuance and here's why. And then they run with it and it's like super exciting to see.
Henry:I see. So in classic research parlance is it almost like you're going from early stage positioning, concepts type work to then following through to you know, I don't know whether this was a new product or not, but let's say it was a new product to iterations of that product and then how it gets marketed and variations across region. So it's the whole thing.
Sharalyn:The whole thing and it's one of the reasons why I love this role so much and it's so unique that I do get to be involved in that right, like I said, like that cradle to grave. You know when you, when you work in an agency, you know you just parachute in and out. You don't get to be there for that whole part. You know usually part of one small piece of that whole big long process that you know a company is usually going to spend 24 months on before you know something hits stores, hits retail or whatever, and this I often get to be part of all of that. And then the extra nuance that's so unique about the global, local and cultural innovation team at Estee Lauder Companies is that you know we're also involved with our R&D department and what is the scientific research that's going on and we're helping steer them on, like these are areas of opportunities that we really need to dig in and understand more for these high growth consumers.
Henry:Yeah, I see it's really fascinating. And how does it intersect them with the consumer insight departments? Because it's you're using consumer insight and maybe that's the key and what I just said you're actually using it.
Sharalyn:it doesn't sound like you're necessarily gathering it so much yourself so that I mean I love that you said that, because I mean it's so funny people in our organization are constantly confused by, like people don't know how to label us, right, because we, because we're, and we're all very quick to admit and I'm the first to say, like I'm not an, I'm not a researcher, I'm not an insights person my running joke is I could play one on TV Like I know it pretty well, right, but I also am very respectful I feel like it's insulting to call myself that to the people that have devoted their whole careers to you know, to this practice. So we tend to partner with our insights team, so we partner with our North America team, our global teams and then other regional teams to, you know, help them, as we're like trying to answer questions because we're experts in particular consumer segments, and so, for instance sorry I should have mentioned earlier, so you know, we have this one COE. Our global and local and cultural innovation group is comprised of two COEs one that's focused on 45 plus and then the other is focused on skin of color. How do we better serve women? You know well, people of you know different race and ethnicities all across the world, particularly in the US and in developing emerging markets, and so we're like the subject matter experts in those.
Sharalyn:So often we get really involved in what's the research design right, what are the big questions that we need to ask and to understand? And you know they usually handle the nitty gritty on things, but we'll weigh in on, you know, the survey development and then are usually part of the process and the analysis. And then often you know we're the ones that like that's taking that insight to the so what and the now what. Like that's really our, our specialty. The really really good researchers do that. But I think you and I know that that's usually not the strength for most researchers. They're amazing at generating to that point because it's such a skill, but not everyone is greater than taking it to the next step and that's really what our team helps do.
Henry:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and it seems to be an increasing trend within companies. I mean Sarah who introduced us, who was formerly at Nike, then I think she had a similar role in some ways. A friend of mine who's at Sky, I think has a similar role. It's almost I don't know like a sort of chief of staff of insight and strategy, like a right-hand person for the GM of that division or brand or whatever it happens to be.
Sharalyn:I kind of think that there's should be increasingly that direction for organizations, because there's no lack of information at any company. I mean just the sheer volume of insights that our teams generate, which is truly amazing, but, like, no one is an expert in all of it. And then how do you sift through it? And when you get to the brand level, you're like, please, please, don't send me another deck. Like, honestly, we'll get that at least once a week. Like, please, for the love, do not send me another deck. And so it's like, how you know, like being that translator, that person that's in the moment, it can, in the conversation, you know, pull all of those little data points out of your head to like here's why and here's, here's what's behind that.
Sharalyn:So I agree, I think, increasingly, organizations need to think about, you know, setting things up, whether, like you said, a chief of staff or you know the way we, we are set up with a COE into really being the, the subject matter experts, that you know all things this way. And, oh, just one little thing, that's an aside, like you know, to cause the. The idea, then, is to prevent what happens so often to researchers is somebody will just come to them like with a subject right, Send me your five best slides on X, right. And I have always felt that that's a bit well, frankly, like kind of insulting, right. Like it's not just about, like it's these. You know, a slide is often like a data point. A data point, a data point. It's really about the synthesis that that's when it's helpful for an organization.
Henry:Yeah, definitely. I also wanted to pick your brain about generational insights, but before we do that, could you just give a little bit of background as to how you ended up in this amazing role?
Sharalyn:Yeah, I mean, when I introduced myself at meetings at Lauder, I always say that I come from this broad background in media, marketing and consumer insights. So, as I told you, in college and right out of college I worked professionally in media. So I did print journalism, worked with newspaper, I also worked on television as a producer and as an on-air host, slash reporter. And then I transitioned to the business side of media, doing that for years and ad sales and event sales, and then I kind of reached this inflection point and I missed kind of the production side of media and I made this was in 2009, I made what was honestly a little bit of a flippant decision that completely changed the course of my life, which I think happens to people more often than we talk about. But I was like I miss writing and at the time there was this big experiment. It was called examinercom.
Sharalyn:Some of you might remember it was this big experiment in, you know, not only national journalism but like hyperlocal is when the whole concept of citizen journalism was big and so they were looking for writers and you could even suggest what your you know column topic would be. And at the time I was, you know, 28 years old and I was like what do I know a lot about? I know what it's like to be a female single 20 something. So I submitted this column with these you know Carrie Bradshaw-esque visions dancing in my head. And you know they came back and they said this is great, but we want you to write about all of Gen Y, not just women.
Sharalyn:And I was like, cool, what's Gen Y? Like literally had never heard the term before. And again, this is 2009. I did what a journalist does and I covered my beat, and even back then, there were so many companies that were publishing research about millennials and saying this stuff and I would just read it and I consider myself I'm a millennial in Gen X and I would read it and be like, no, you totally missed the point, duh. And so I started writing about that. But I didn't want to be a focus group of one, so I was simultaneously building this big network through like 20 something bloggers and brazen careerists, these like online platforms for 20 somethings back in the day, and it was through that that I entered into my 4-H market research.
Sharalyn:There was a, a it's a firm called frank maggot associates I know them, I know them well, yes yeah, for those that don't, they are honestly, I don't think it's a stretch to say the premier research agency for the media and entertainment space, frank maggot. I mean he was the one that told cbs to put walter crronkite behind the camera. He developed Good Morning America they are the authority in news and they had a generational strategies practice area that focused on millennials. And the way the story goes is my old boss was bored in a budget meeting. He was Googling stuff and came across my column and was impressed and he reached out to me and so we started chatting and, of course, had this media background and he was looking to. He wanted help to remonetize this practice area and was also looking to explore the generation coming after millennials, and so he first hired me as a consultant.
Sharalyn:I wrote a business plan for him on how to remonetize it, and then he hired me to come on and run it, and I knew nothing about market research. This was my first foray into it. This was in 2010. And that's where I got to learn from who I genuinely still, to this day, believe some of the absolute best in the business when it comes to both quant and qual. While I was there, I started working in beauty and luxury a little bit, and I then spent the next six years working under my own umbrella, consulting in the space, but always looking for. I wanted that full time home and beauty.
Henry:And then this incredible opportunity at Stay Water Companies came along. Yeah, that's fantastic. I think they do have a very good track record in terms of taking how can I describe it? Talented specialists in certain areas who don't have a consumer, insights or passion for the sector, the intellectual curiosity, the storytelling ability, the human empathy, all those components, and I say that not just to credit Magid but also, I think, because other organizations should be doing more of the same.
Sharalyn:I think One hundred percent. I couldn't agree with you more, I think. I mean I think that was the legacy of Frank Magid and you know, jack McKenzie, who ran their LA office for years and was the one that found and hired me. That was very much the way he looked at things and you know, I love that. You said storytelling because at the end of the day, like that's the link across my whole, like career path, I mean it's funny. I mean for the last, I don't know now, like 15 years, like my parents could not tell anyone what it is that I do, like they have no idea.
Henry:That's just the sign of a good job.
Sharalyn:Yeah, right, right, because they used to be like, well, she was a reporter, she was, you know, like they could tell. And now it's like this weird nebulous thing. But, like I often explain to people, I mean that's what it is at the end of the day, I'm a storyteller and you know, I think that to be really good with insights it is about building that story through data and to be good at insights, because part of being an insights professional, I think, isn't being influential and you have to build that story. And so that was where you know, at Maggot, having that that background as a producer and as a reporter really like came through. And then it was really the next step of like taking the what this means with the data. This is like spending years on the business side of media. Like what does that mean? How do we build an audience? How do we monetize this? Like that, that heart came super naturally to me to like just then bring it all the way across.
Henry:Yeah, I really like the so what and then the now what that you were talking about earlier, and it's interesting that I think you need the business context and the confidence in many cases from the business context in order to give the now what.
Sharalyn:Well, it's so funny because it also just shows like personality types. I will never, as long as I forget, as long as I live, forget this one. I was on this conference call, magid, years and years and years ago right this pre-Zoom days, we're all just on a phone call. It was like we were working on a proposal for a client and it was something about millennials. So I was involved and, I kid you not, they went off for like 90 minutes. These brilliant researchers I'm working with, like going into the nuances of the difference of the methodology, which in my mind were basically the same, but they were so cause they're just, that is their passion, that's what they do, and I was like, oh my gosh, kill me now. Like let's just talk about, like, what we are trying to get out of it.
Sharalyn:Like you know, and that just shows like that's why we got such amazing insights, because we had researchers who were so good and so detailed at like the nuances of particular methodologies whereas I'm like, okay, whatever, yeah, we just need to do some qual and now like, let's, this is what I want to get out, and so it was the combination of having, I think, those two types of forces is what made for such impactful work so at this point we spent about 30 minutes way over schedule.
Henry:I have to confess almost entirely my fault on the different generations truths and myths around those generations. Sharon was really, really great on this subject, so I thought I'd extract that piece and turn it into its own episode, which will be up next week. Now we're jumping on towards the end of the episode and in particular, the types of methodologies and approaches used within the Estee Lauder companies and approaches used within the Estee Lauder companies. I totally, totally buy into what you're saying, that you need to observe and spend time and feel who your people are. How do you go about doing that now?
Sharalyn:We do a little bit of everything at the Estee Lauder companies and I mean I believe the pandemic brought so many opportunities for qual because it could just make it more scalable and more affordable for companies to do more qual, because doing everything in person is just hard, it takes a lot of time, but to be able to do you know Zoom groups, which are not the same right, but just you can get more qual, qualitative happening, qualitative happening. But I'll say one of the things that has been so interesting for me since coming to the Estee Lauder companies is they have a brand partner that they've used multiple times, called Brand Trust. This is an incredible firm. So if you guys haven't heard of them, listening, look them up. I think they do deep qual and I'm talking like getting into, like what are the mental models? Like unpacking, what are the unconscious, like things happening when consumers are making decisions, like what are the truths that they hold in their head that are impacting them, what they do Like they have such a great way of like getting to it. And when you talk about like, okay, in today's world, how do we do it?
Sharalyn:What was fascinating and what I witnessed from a few times we partnered with them is like they'll just do old school radio interviews, like radio like, like like phone interviews, so they won't even do Zoom or anything anymore, to seem like they just talked to a consumer and have they start with, like when we did this mental models of aging project, it was about having them recalling memories. And then the analyst on the phone is like then digging, digging through each memory, like there was like maybe three questions and then it was dig, dig, dig, dig, dig. Okay, now what about this memory? Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig. And it was fascinating to listen to. And then the other part of their methodology that was so incredible like I've never seen after having, you know, worked at a market research firm.
Sharalyn:They would allow the client we would listen in as like silent, like fly on the wall, when their analysts all got together and compared notes after they had done the interviews.
Sharalyn:So you know, we weren't allowed to like speak up, we just we were literally flies on the wall and got to listen to the analysts as they were literally thinking through the analysis and and I need like I think that might make some people clutch their pearls Like the idea of like secret sauce you can't like, but the value it delivered, to be able to listen through that and what it did is.
Sharalyn:So, when they presented their final insights, you were so on board, we were all so invested because we're like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like nothing came as a surprise because we basically were with them on the journey to the conclusion, and I know you kind of asked more broadly about what Estrella Water does. But I just love to share that example because it was, you know, a chance for me because I haven't really worked with a lot of vendors outside of when I was one, so a chance to like see the way other vendors approach things and it's been really, it's been really enlightening and the amount that I personally gleaned from that experience because I got insights that they didn't even talk about, that I draw on now was truly invaluable.
Henry:Yeah, I love all of those examples. I mean the idea of the phone conversation, whereas you say it's so much more personal and impersonal in a good way, in terms of you're not necessarily looking at the person, even though we're very used to that, but you could really really probe in depth. Yeah, fascinated by that notion of having the client sit in as you're working on the debrief. Do you think they modulated what they were saying because the clients were there, or did they forget you were there after a while?
Sharalyn:I didn't get the impression that they did at all. It truly felt like we were flying the wall. Now, granted, they could think they were exceedingly professional. This is not like. Maybe it was a bit smoke and mirrors, like I don't know. This is maybe me being a little bit of a millennial. I'm like it was just great and we got to see. You know, there might've thought it was a bit staged, but I I, either way, I thought it was pretty incredible and it was. You know, it was to work in the moment where you know, and then, cause we weren't, we didn't speak up, but you know, we're like messaging each other, like oh, but I heard this, I kind of think this and it was just really.
Sharalyn:I think the other thing that's beautiful of it is it forces you, as the client, to be part of the analysis, and I think what happens a lot now, having been on vendor side and client side, is it's really easy to just put it all on the vendor and then to be mad about it later.
Sharalyn:This isn't very good or whatever right like, but it forces you to kind of be part of the process and gets you more invested and even if maybe you don't fully agree. You are now vested into this process. That I think, ultimately gets you more on board with where it is like, because I took what they did and then I took it several steps further in developing what you know how we've used it. But I was so invested and and I just think that you know to researchers listening to this, I think there's something to that and in a world where there's no shortage of data or data shortage, you know a shortage of data or a way to get data or, frankly, firms to get it for them I think whatever you can do to set yourself apart is going to be so important.
Henry:Yeah, it really resonates in terms of some of my best and closest client relationships, I think, have been that very iterative type of relationship whereby even if I was in London, they were in LA, la, they just pick up the phone and they'd go. So what are you thinking about is how you're reading this and I go I don't know, I've just kind of got a hunch and they'd be like, yeah, I kind of agree with you and actually we've seen a couple of points elsewhere that suggest this and other work we're doing and that type of thing. Where it's it's very collaborative, um, but it's also iterative and you're really genuinely feeding off each other. I must wrap up. I must wrap up. Could I just ask it's a final five questions or so, if that's okay, of course. So who have your mentors been and what did they teach you?
Sharalyn:So, in the terms of market research, it's absolutely my partners in crime at Magid, and that's Rich McGuire who is, I think, the best in the business.
Sharalyn:He primarily does quant, but he does qual and he's who taught me how to quantify qual, which there's a real art to doing that and how you marry that through. And then Jack McKenzie, who hired me and found me, but he's really the one that taught me the art of like. What does this all mean and how do you drive impact and how to like, feel confident in like? Here's what I'm thinking and then going out and try to figure out if you're right or not and to sometimes be provocative with those questions to do that. And I mean I will still reach out to those guys to this day, like I reached out to Rich a while ago. I was trying to like this is a big question for the Estee Lauder companies and I conned a vendor into doing like five questions for me for free. How do I maximize it, you know, and he like helped me strategize to do it, and so they've been instrumental for me no-transcript.
Sharalyn:Okay. So I think it comes down to two things. So transparency, I think, is one that's really really big. I think that sets an agency apart and makes it really good. So there's transparency, like I talked about with this agency, like Brand Trust, where we actually really truly get to see behind the curtain of how they arrive at everything. You could take that as transparency in pricing. There's a whole lot of things, but I think in research, transparency is really important because people love to poke holes in stuff. So I think the more transparency you can be is really powerful.
Sharalyn:But the other thing, I think, especially when you start talking in terms of generations, consistency is the other big thing. I think it is what makes an agency good. If you really want to learn about Gen Z, do you really want to call an agency who has just done a couple of Gen Z projects that somebody just focused on this, like that are then going to spend all their time doing gathering context, like you should go to someone that this is like their specialty, this is what they do. Same thing, if you're trying to learn about consumers of colors, go to somebody who this is what they do and this is what they focus on, and you know, with that consistency, also be looking at, like, how are they defining things?
Sharalyn:You know, when I'm talking in generations, you know I went through a whole thing about how painstakingly these are the birth years. You know, don't think of generations in terms of age, in terms of ages, because it changes every year and then you forget. You got to think in terms of birth years and I know major international agencies that I will read reports and they change the birth years constantly and how it's defined. So it's basically whichever one which researcher uses, and I think that's the hallmark of like that's not a good agency. Like you have to be consistent. You need to be speaking across your whole department. So it's like as a group, we define gen z as being x, right, and then building that context and part of that consistency. Then you have tracking, like and that's really where things come into play. So I think those are the two big things transparency and consistency two very good ones.
Henry:and now slightly more controversial question what would your partner say are your best and your worst characteristics or traits?
Sharalyn:Oh, this one made me giggle. I was like I'm just going to say it and then I'll ask him later and possibly cry. But I was like first I think he'll probably say that I'm empathetic and I care a lot, and then I think he'll hopefully say that one of my worst traits is that I'm in a situation I care a lot.
Henry:It's often the case, isn't it? The biggest strength is the biggest weakness.
Sharalyn:Yeah, I kind of drive him crazy sometimes and also I have a tendency to repeat myself to him a lot and bless his heart. He's like honey, you've told me this three times. I was like real, I didn't think I've even told you yet and I'm not even you know. I'm like what on earth am I going to be like when I'm like 80?
Henry:I'm so sorry well, maybe he said, maybe he stopped listening and that's why you have to keep on repeating.
Sharalyn:Sorry, I'm dumping him in it now now he, he, in our relationship he's the one that's always right, like he's basically perfect. So now I'm sure it's me not remembering okay, final couple of questions.
Henry:What's your favorite book or recent book, um, and, and why?
Sharalyn:so I oh so hard to pick a favorite. I do love to read. It kind of comes to go in bits and spurts of you know I'll read a whole bunch and then not read for a while. But so I just chose a recent one that I read that I just loved, and it's by Paulina Porizkova, the famous model, and it's called no Filter the Good, the Bad and the Beautiful, and I absolutely adored it. It was a collection of essays and she's an exceedingly good writer, which you know. I think people are often surprised when models are smart and you know English is not her first language, but she just it's a collection of essays and blame it on the day job. But so many of the essays are about aging and beauty and aging in this time and they, they're just beautiful and I feel like every woman can relate to them and I think any marketer of any type that's trying to understand, you know, women, people of a certain age. I think it's a really wonderful book.
Henry:What do you think or hope you'll be doing personally in five years time?
Sharalyn:Oh my gosh, this is the one that I didn't give enough thought to. I like off the top of my head. The first thing is like I want to be a lot more of this, like I love doing this this is the former tv person in me, but I, man, give me a microphone and I'm like in my happy place, like I love talking to other, like brilliant people like yourself, and like learn and to kind of pontificate on things and to share and, most importantly, like then when it's about, you know, driving towards something and driving towards impact. So I hope I'm doing more of this kind of thing and I'm hoping that I'm really leading some massive, you know initiatives at Estee Lauder companies.
Henry:I suspect you will be. You're very, very good at it, Sherilyn. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Sharalyn:Oh my goodness, Thank you, this was awesome.
Henry:Well, I hope you enjoyed the first interview of the new series as much as I did. Sherilyn's lovely, she's incredibly knowledgeable, she's passionate, and the great news is that she'll be back next week with a whole part of the interview that we decided to turn into its own episode. In that we get into truths and myths around generational cohorts. Please follow or subscribe on your podcast service to make sure you get notification of that and all the new episodes coming up in this series. There are some really great guests. Thanks, as always, to Insight Platforms for their support, to Sharon Lynn for her time and to you for listening. See you next week.
