Insights, Marketing & Data: Secrets of Success from Industry Leaders
Insights, Marketing & Data: Secrets of Success from Industry Leaders
ADIDAS - Annie Melnic (Head of Consumer Insights, Outdoor Sports). How can sports encourage sustainability? Where consumer insights helps; cultural differences in marketing; tips for agencies to stand out and mistakes to avoid.
Digging into the pioneering research into outdoor sports at Adidas, with Annie Melnic, Head of Consumer Insights.
Brought to you by Horizon, the #1 Market Validation Software https://www.gethorizon.net/
In this episode we cover:
- How to say Adidas properly! Clue: you get a choice
- Relative benefits of dashboard and SaaS
- What makes agencies stand out
- Mistakes agencies should avoid
- Adidas's product development lifecycle and use of multiple data streams
- Encouraging sustainability & environmental responsibility
- Learnings from Annie's career and tips for the future
As well as Annie’s book recommendations, check them out:
- The Right It by Albert Savoia, former Director of Engineering and Innovation Agitator at Google
- Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Chamine, Chairman of CTI, the largest coach-training organisation in the world
- The Chimp Paradox by Professor Steve Peters, renowned clinical psychiatrist from the world of elite business and sport
All episodes available at https://www.insightplatforms.com/podcasts/
Suggestions, thoughts etc to futureviewpod@gmail.com
FUTUREVIEW PODCAST – SEASON 1/ EPISODE 1
INTERVIEW WITH ANNIE MELNIC, ADIDAS. HEAD OF CONSUMER INSIGHTS, OUTDOOR SPORTS.
[00:10] Henry Piney: This week we're looking at the use of consumer insight from the perspective of one of the world's most iconic brands, Adidas. So I'm delighted to have on Annie Melnic as a guest and he's had a fascinating journey to our current enrolled, where she's headed Consumer Insights for Outdoor Sports. Before that, she was at major brands such as City Index and Betfair. In this interview, Annie get some really insightful analysis into topics like agile product development, what agency should and perhaps more pertinently shouldn't do, and how the insights industry can encourage an environmentally responsible approach. Please do forgive any small glitches and technical quality which will continue to improve nonetheless. But just for a moment, before we get going, I'd like to introduce our sponsor for this episode, Horizon.
Horizon is a pioneering, SaaS company in consumer insights. They're taking a new approach to consumer research to help support strategic product and pricing decisions. They do this by moving beyond the written concepts and the open basic stimulus that used to be used in this type of research and introducing a new approach called preto-typing. The really cool thing about preto-typing is that it gives consumers the chance to interact with new products and pricing options and concepts in real environments from a client's perspective. They're then able to make consumer centric decisions based on real behavioral data, in addition to traditional metrics like stated intent. Leading global companies such as Bosch, Siemens and beauty brands like Essence are already using Horizon to make better product decisions. Check them out on gethorizon.net
.[01:31] Henry Piney: And now onto the interview with Annie.
[01:37] Henry Piney: So Annie, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast. We've got lots and lots to talk about. But first of all, and I warned you about this, I've got to ask you a question about pronunciation. So the name of this company that you work for, how do you say it?
[01:50] Annie Melnic: Well, if we start from the location where the company is actually based, and that's Germany. In Germany they say.
[02:02] Henry Piney: I knew it. I've been telling my American friends that's how you say it, but go on.
[02:09] Annie Melnic: I can actually tell you that if the accent can be placed on either of the vowels, depending where you come where you come from. For instance, there are cultures. In Germany, you would say adidas. In Brazil, everyone knows the brand as Ajitas. And in Russia or in eastern countries, the pronunciation is added.
[02:44] Henry Piney: So there we go. You should be a diplomat, you say, you could set however you want. There's no right or wrong. Either that or you should work in consumer insights, market research.
[02:56] Annie Melnic: I started my career with the former. And actually, when I did my studies, I went into international business and economics with an eye on diplomacy. And here I am in Consumer insights instead.
[03:11] Henry Piney: Anyway, now we've clarified that kind of how you say, attitude so I'm going to keep on saying added that what does your role at the company encompass?
[03:20] Annie Melnic: So I head up the consumer insights function for view outdoor So the business unit that looks after outdoor sports for Adidas. And we have been so called speedboat the high growth part of the business until about a year ago, or more than a year ago now, when we have been restructured and integrated into one of the five pillars of the company, we become a focus view and we're still the fastest growing view in the business.
[03:56] Henry Piney: Oh, fantastic. Congratulations on that. What role does Consumer Insights sort of play in terms of the development of the products that you're looking at, how they're marketed? What were you contributing to such fast growth?
[04:10] Annie Melnic: I can tell you the role that we don't play because otherwise I would have to tell you about the entire structure of the Bu B. Almost every single team is a stakeholder of mine from design and how we look at our expression in years to come from our head office or the strategy teams that look at how the view is developing over the next five years plus. So from very high strategic level insights all the way to product development, indeed with what I call functional or preferential insights that are more that entail validating trends or validating preferences with tumors, running a lot of tests, running a lot of research studies both globally but also supporting our markets. So from very micro level insights in terms of how the zipper flows, how the Zip should feel on your winter jacket or how your waterproof hiking shoes should what function they should achieve for you all the way to the very strategic about, let's say, our attack plans for Nam or something like that.
[05:39] Henry Piney: That's fascinating. So if we just sort of drill down a little bit into the types of methodologies you use. So how does that work from the very big picture, the type of thing you're doing to understand trends and whatever research are you doing and then down to kind of the real detail you said in terms of how a zip might work on somebody's jacket and that type of thing.
[05:59] Annie Melnic: The methodologies are as diverse as the needs of my stakeholders from analytical work and I come from a certain research and analytical background to integrating multiple streams of insights, multiple streams of data before a report is produced and before recommendations are formulated to working with trend research and prediction tools.
But it's a lot of this in the end, when you start seeing convergence across different platforms, you know you're onto something, especially if it's something that you've observed in your more traditional research. But I say more traditional with inverted commerce because with certain the scale that we want to reach within the budget that we want to reach, our approach has been frugal.
And what I've introduced to our BU just a year ahead of corona was fully digitized research, meaning that when Corona went through get hit and I say corona and the German way of referring to the phenomenon. We were fully prepared to run virtual research. So the crisis hasn't impacted us as much.
[07:27] Henry Piney: How far ahead is the company looking in terms of the products that you'll be making? For instance, are you evaluating what would be made for outdoor sports in, say, 2025 at this point, or is that too far ahead?
[07:40] Annie Melnic: No, actively working on 24, but already with an eye and projections and doing some market modeling for 25 and beyonds.
[07:50] Henry Piney: Interesting. And so if you were looking at 24 or 25, what's the process you usually go through? So imagine you have an internal stakeholder who maybe has a thesis or a hypothesis around a certain direction they want to go in. Let's set a new type of running shoe for a particular trail running shoe.
[08:09] Annie Melnic: And outdoors, it's a trail running shoe.
[08:11] Henry Piney: Trail running shoe, okay, sorry, I'm correct. So what's the process you go through? What happens if you're thinking about 2025, sort of from a sequential process? Could you just talk me through that?
[08:24] Annie Melnic: We start and it doesn't change from year to year, except for the years when we review our five year strategic business plans. And we are now in year one of implementing our own game strategy, let's say the official all encompassing Adidas strategy, which is a five year plan with objectives for outdoor to achieve. So from that five year plan, we look at yearly planning and then seasonalization I see.
[09:02] Henry Piney: If I just sort of stop you there and double click for a second on the five year plan component of it. What consumer insight strands go into that?
[09:11] Annie Melnic: We look at quantitative data, market projections, some sales forecast, or our ambitions, our financial ambitions for this time. Then we look at the mega trends defining the world and the ones that are reflected in the outdoor industry. So we drill down into trends and how we play on to them because we always try to. As you can imagine, we're interested still in growing the business or in capturing more consumers who want to head into the outdoors.
We want to bring the outdoors in to benefit more people, given the need for that connection with nature. So we look at what can enable us to play a bigger role for consumers, and then we translate that into a product proposition. And the product proposition not only from typical, let's say, your wind jacket or some hiking footwear and apparel, it's also digital services or partnerships that would make sense for the consumers.
[10:26] Henry Piney: I see, so you've got the product proposition, and then how do you then test it? How do you know it's going to work? Or how do you project that whether it's going to work or not?
[10:37] Annie Melnic: So from those megatrends, we look into what would make sense or what are the key stories that would be engaging for consumers in that year. In that season. We have assumptions as to either from our observations, either from our own, let's say, an initiative and innovation that we want to launch into the market.
And this is when we start having conversations with consumers to see, to validate. Is it something they're ready for? Is there a pain point that we would solve within the innovation that we've been working on in terms of materials or in terms of how a product is built or in terms of a proposition? And then we look into fine tuning it to specific consumer needs and to specific market needs.
Because this course and what people hear every day shapes the way they might perceive your product. And you have to speak in a way that you're understood. You have to have the storytelling beyond images in a very subtle way that connects with consumers. And it's actually by listening to them that you can play back onto what they told you.
[12:04] Henry Piney: What do you do? Do you do focus groups? Do you put up like digital mocked up different types of shoes? How do you sort of give them a sense of the product that's coming and start to get initial feedback before you actually started to make it?
[12:18] Annie Melnic: Indeed focus groups, but at a global scale. So we are talking about at least 2000 consumers engaged at the same time for that initial validation, at least. And we run the studies in several markets at the same time. We try to capture as many diverse representations in the study design so that we recruit those users from diverse backgrounds so that the diversity of their needs becomes reflected.
And with that part of the study, we ask questions, but also validate. We show them sometimes sketches or early sample photos or digital product, let's say three D to see, to get that validation, to try to apply that agile mentality to validate the direction where we're going. Is it resonating with them? Is the messaging coming across? Is it something that they were actually looking for?
[13:26] Henry Piney: Interesting. Are you doing those focus groups online? Or I imagine given the pandemic that.
[13:33] Annie Melnic: You have been it has been predominantly online, but we also work a lot with athletes during events. So there are trail running festivals, there are outdoor festivals or event races, competitive events. There are workshops dedicated to, let's say, product workshops in retail spaces. We run meetings with specialty retailers from the outdoor space. There's different ways in which we continue that conversation with consumers. So not just digital. We try to make it also tangible in person, where possible and where relevant.
[14:18] Henry Piney: Interesting, because I was going to ask that question because you mentioned that you'd like to talk to influencers within the sort of space and so I was wondering how you find them. But it sounds like you actually go to sort of the point of usage and you start talking to athletes and events to kind of get their feedback, which makes a lot of sense, and I think particularly the multi mode approach that you're taking. So then you decided you press the button, you're manufacturing the new trail running shoe. And then what happens from a research perspective to sort of I guess there are still opportunities now to sort of course correct and optimize the shoe itself as well as the marketing. What happens from a research process?
[15:02] Annie Melnic: Hopefully, by the time you hit the shelves, you've done a little bit of research on communication preferences. So what we emphasize a lot is on tailoring the message so that it's understood by a variety of audience. So people can be very analytical, people can appreciate information, and others are very experiential in their perception of information. So we try to incorporate and this is an insight, okay, what is the percentage of the audience which prefers information delivered in what way?
So we adapt our product specs or product descriptions to cater to that audience. We add the storytelling or the key messages that are part of some of our seasonal campaigns, and that product goes to market. But research doesn't end with that validation. Okay, did we adapt the language to be understood both in language both visual and worthy to be understood by consumers and to make the most super optimized for our consumers? We also then look at product reviews. So once the product is in the market, we look at feedback that comes through the different distribution channels online and through our partners. And that is pulled into another stream of analytics for producing the next wave of insights and action points for our teams.
[16:37] Henry Piney: Just to give a bit of flavor, how does the marketing say for this trail running shoe vary across kind of market? So, for instance, if you were looking at Brazil as opposed to Germany as opposed to the US, what are some of the types of things that you might emphasize or deemphasize in different countries?
[16:58] Annie Melnic: For us, we would look at things like climate and how the terrain or how the predominant needs of the consumer vary. And from that we would look at adapting the visuals used in a campaign. You might have the same trail running shoe, but in China, when selling in an Asian environment or in Germany, the mountains look totally different. The forests don't have the same leads. Hence you need to adapt to show that you can run in those. Otherwise you might be taken literally, meaning that you have to take this shoe and run in a bamboo forest, or this shoe is only suitable for a tropical forest. This is the same shoe. And you take it into different settings that are more familiar to the target consumer and you put it also into the product, the emotion, the setting. And the setting is the forest, the mountains, the landscape, but also the people wearing them.
[18:10] Henry Piney: So to what extent do you rely on agencies in the work you're doing?
[18:14] Annie Melnic: We rely a lot on the work of our PMS and our team of analysts. However, to connect with consumers in the market, working with agency which can leverage scale for us and can leverage those connections into the market are invaluable. My work would be decimated and would be impossible to deliver at the same scale where it's not for great agency partners and I'm grateful for their working contributions.
[18:49] Henry Piney: Okay, so Annie, without getting to details around particular agencies, unless you particularly want to, what makes a really great agency? What are the characteristics that make them very effective in working with Adidas?
[19:03] Annie Melnic: When working with Adidas, but especially when working with particular as the outdoors or added as terrace empathy and good communication, that ability to understand clients needs is key. And client needs. This might sound familiar to people who build digital products. Clients need to evolve over time without checking whether the question at the beginning is the same question we're asking one month down the line, three months down the line. So being able to adapt to a changing environment, to evolving mentality, really helps. And sometimes the data stays the same.
It's the way it's being presented or how it's sizzled and before being delivered to us really makes a difference. And that this adaptability scalability, no job is too small. But also a big global study running in parallel in several countries is also something that I would love it's invaluable when the same partner can deliver both.
[20:26] Henry Piney: So to summarize and tell me this isn't fair. A lot of it's about tenure with you as a client and understanding your needs, but not assuming that the world's staying the same and the needs are remaining the same. And then a lot of emphasis on sort of presentation and sizzle as you describe it.
[20:42] Annie Melnic: Indeed. And that ability to apply analytical thinking, extract the insight from what the data just tells you because there's a difference between reading the data and just doing the statistical headlines. That analytics thinking, that extracts consumer perceptive and unique insights for us to tap into. And storytelling, storytelling with data, storytelling with visuals, the ability to tell in 30 seconds or in 30 minutes or sometimes in half a day to keep people engaged with consumer stories.
[21:24] Henry Piney: That's really interesting, your focus on that sort of side of things. As I'm sure you're aware, there's a lot of commentary in the industry around balance between SaaS Type Services dashboards and then on another side, that kind of not necessarily the opposite end of the spectrum, but sort of more consultancy and creative interpretation. So in terms of that balance, what's most important for you as a client?
[21:51] Annie Melnic: When I started my role, I introduced a lot of stuff, tools for our purposes. They are democratic, they're always on. They're there for people to use without me necessarily stepping in. But the value add analysts or presenters bring to the picture is what makes the difference. Where a staff is a commodity that value adds a person can bring, or a good presentation that's been shaped in a very thoughtful way is still. I see this as an opportunity for.
[22:28] Henry Piney: People to deliver, not necessarily agencies of good or bad, but what should agencies avoid if they're working with you as a client?
[22:41] Annie Melnic: My recommendation would be to avoid selling a product. It's about entering a client's needs, it's never about just selling the product. Focus on your client needs consumer centric and your consumer is the client. If you want to enable consumer centricity, show how that is done before bombarding them with all the greatest innovations that sometimes clients might be overwhelmed by. Sure, it all sounds fancy, but if you hear the same thing five times a day and nobody asks you how do you feel? What are you actually working on? How can I help you? Is there anything I can what difference can I make in your day? Start with a question.
[23:25] Henry Piney: I think that's fantastic advice. As you say, these are researchers. Ask questions, don't assume you know the answers up front. Just a quick moment and then I want to move on. In terms of sales, having worked mainly on the agency side, it's a tricky subject, slightly dirty word for a lot of particularly more consultancy driven, consultancy driven agencies. What sort of advice would you give to agencies if they're pitching a brand or a client like you? What should they do and what shouldn't they do?
[23:58] Annie Melnic: They should understand the bigger picture. Where is the immediate opportunity and where is the mid to long term opportunity? And deliver a quick fix, but be there with a greater toolkit of solutions for the long run. With that big picture in mind, they would also be able to there, let's say, the simple deliverable. So the more ad hoc or current deliverables always fall back and build back onto the five year strategy or the seasonal priorities, et cetera. Connecting all the dots and the ability to show that done your homework is still very valid.
[24:45] Henry Piney: I think that's great advice. And by the way, when I'm talking to agencies, I'm going to ask agencies the same question what makes a good client? What annoys them? What makes them terrible clients?
[24:58] Annie Melnic: And this is where I can share an insight with you, that I've changed the way I work with agencies and I've taken some of my agencies on the coaching journey for them to be easier to work with me.
[25:13] Henry Piney: Well, that makes you a very good client, which doesn't surprise me, by the way, in the least. So just touching on the idea that you talked about around the bigger picture. And so in terms of outdoor sports especially, I imagine that's very closely tied with encouraging a healthy lifestyle, an environmentally conscious approach. What can these sort of data and insights, industry sector as a whole due to further encourage that bet based on your experience.
[25:45] Annie Melnic: Show the gray to green spaces, show where there's still opportunities. Show the areas or the connections of the groups who want to get outdoors but they're missing access or they're missing something and find the missing pieces. There's definitely an opportunity there.
[26:05] Henry Piney: That's interesting. What does greater green mean exactly?
[26:09] Annie Melnic: Let's say if we look at the map, black is all covered, it's covered territory, well shaded trails, gray is on the side. It's, let's say, an opportunity to build upon something that exists and add incrementally to something that springs up organically. All those well trodden path and the green space is to see opportunities where let's say at the convergence of two sports or groups that are venturing into the outdoors, but they haven't done that in the past or not. T
he ways in which products are being used or whether it's digital products or apparel, we want to partner with our consumers in helping them reduce their carbon footprint, at least when it comes to their outer apparel. With the carbon footprint of your journey to your destination. Rail travel or other opportunities that exist and this is also going back to those bridges. Building those bridges and showing that actually to get to your destination. It's much easier to jump on a train and all the facilities exist and taking down some of those barriers you might have in your head about it's impossible to store skis or I cannot take my mountain bike on with me.
If you communicate around the topic, you show that actually the environmental footprint of your adventure will be much less if you took the car. That's actually original difference that differs from market to market. It depends also on the infrastructure you have access to from a national point of view and I'm thinking here of the US. Where jumping in a car is still the norm. Also because of the distances and the lack of rail infrastructure to take you to some of the destinations you want to reach.
[28:23] Henry Piney: That makes a lot of sense. And I suppose it also stack into understanding the messaging as well and the consumer insights sort of process and understanding the overall environment for each country, the infrastructure, hence what is practical and beneficial messaging, which I could probably ask you questions about that something for hours of around the differences between these different kind of cultures. But I am conscious of time and so what I wanted to do is what I described as kind of the quick fire round, if that's all right.
[28:55] Annie Melnic: Let's try it all.
[28:56] Henry Piney: Okay, let's do it. Okay, so on a personal level, what's the one thing about you that listeners might find surprising?
[29:05] Annie Melnic: The nine languages I speak.
[29:08] Henry Piney: Wow, nine languages? No way. Okay, run through what they are.
[29:13] Annie Melnic: So Romanian, which is my native language? French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, German. And I've also studied Japanese and Chinese.
[29:28] Henry Piney: Well, I am truly humbled given that I only speak English with a strange accent and some very rudimentary German and French which I won't try it on you now.
[29:41] Annie Melnic: And yes, I still have English to learn from you.
[29:45] Henry Piney: I don't think so. Your English is probably better than mine, frankly. So what's your favorite book or recent book?
[29:53] Annie Melnic: I paid a truly let's say I'm going to use an industry term or something that really describes my experience reading it. A real page turner has been Alberto Savoia The Right It I just can't get my hands off that page of that book. I keep going back, taking screenshots, taking pictures of some of those paragraphs, both the way it has been written, very witty conversationally with Anecdotes and both the learning that I take out of that book are delighted.
[30:29] Henry Piney: Well, we'll put that up on the podcast website as well as a link to it if anybody wants to get the link and download it or even buy a physical copy. So what's the one thing in your career you're most proud of?
[30:43] Annie Melnic: Difficult to pick? I would say that I would call out the most recent achievements that are also approved to what great teamwork can do and it's about great teamwork and great teams working well together. We've had award winning products or products winning awards across different categories in terms of both how they've done with how they've performed with consumers, industry awards and it was all kind of driven and informed by consumers. So great things happen when you put the consumers at the heart of what you do and you put your heart into work you do with consumers.
[31:33] Henry Piney: Fantastic. What have you changed your mind about recently?
[31:38] Annie Melnic: Decentralization versus delegation. If you don't do it, it won't get done. So for me, the one thing that I really started reconsidering is how much we are involved in doing something that we care about and it's that.
[32:00] Annie Melnic: Do your bit, actually do it physically. And with the relief efforts for Ukraine you do get first you get a completely different sense of belonging and of contribution when you do things yourself but you also see how your contribution is making a difference and it's not that giving money to someone to do it for you doesn't work. It's when you actually find a way to personally help yourself and do something but it translates not just in this situation. It's about work as well. It's about how you sometimes need to train people, you need to talk to people, you need to take people through journeys yourself.
[32:48] Henry Piney: I see. So it's kind of like if you want to really see change you need to personify that yourself and kind of make it happen.
[32:56] Annie Melnic: Absolutely.
[32:57] Henry Piney: What's the biggest industry trend we should all be thinking about?
[33:01] Annie Melnic: I would turn this back to humanizing insights and how much data versus how much story is put into illustrating your point and making that point really come across, really get rooted in with your audience. And if I may, if I may come back to you with a question.
[33:30] Henry Piney: Of course you can.
[33:31] Annie Melnic: What would be a prediction that you made a year back that has come through some of your, perhaps industry predictions?
[33:43] Henry Piney: I don't want to just parrot back exactly what you've said, but it is very much along those lines in that I felt for some time that aggregation of data through dashboards SaaS type systems, of course, is incredibly valuable. But there will be an increasing focus actually on the insight and actually humans doing the work in terms of isolating and pulling out what's really, really relevant. I suspect there's also a difference between the mentalities that reporting type businesses need to take, whereby, in effect, the arbiter of what's happening, the number of sales, or there's a lot of focus on sort of a centralized data set and then agencies who are trying to help their clients make decisions.
[34:32] Annie Melnic: Okay, thank you.
[34:34] Henry Piney: Thank you so much. This has been brilliant. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you and hopefully we can do it again sometime soon.
[34:42] Annie Melnic: Thank you. Thank you as well. Thank you for having me.
[34:46] Henry Piney: Not at all. It's been a total pleasure.
[34:52] Henry Piney: I love doing that interview and I hope you enjoyed it too. I thought a lot of Annie's points really gave a great flavor, particularly in areas around how Adidas gets feedback from actual athletes, the product development process, the importance of getting feedback from multiple sources and touch points.
Also, her viewpoints around the balance and benefits of SaaS and as well as the human touch and interpretation that can be provided by great analysts, I thought was very insightful. Annie’s book recommendations are on the website. Share some great thoughts there, and please feel free to get in touch with me with thoughts, suggestions or questions at futureviewpod@gmail.com.
And finally, before we go, thanks again to Horizon for sponsoring this episode. Horizon inputs real consumer behavioral data into the insights process. You can check them out@gethorizon.net that's gethorizon.net
